Wild Riders Tactics

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Wild Riders Tactics

Postby Ethankyou » Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:22 am

How does everyone feel about Wild Riders?

From what I've tried of them so far, I haven't really left much of an impact on the playing field. I'm a fan of Forest Spirits, and I feel these make a great addition to forest spirits armies - fast cavalry and all - but I'm not sure they get enough punch for what they cost.

I'm curious to know, how does everyone feel about this unit? Like? Hate? Special Maneuvers?
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Re: Wild Riders Tactics

Postby BreasticleeS » Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:38 am

Many people will disagree with me here, but I like them in units of 5 or 10, and give them the Razor Banner, cuts through armor like butter.
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Re: Wild Riders Tactics

Postby Ravenlord » Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:03 am

I agree. They are probably the hardest hitting Fast cavalry in the game. I run them in one unit of 10 as often as I can get a chance. Sometimes with characters, but not as often as without.If I use a magical banner I tend to use the Warbanner, not as expensive as the Razor but still quite beneficial in a combat.

Special moves? Well, they are so flexible that I don´t know were to begin. Threaten everybody´s rears and kick ass!
Just yesterday, they killed me 13 ghouls and 3 Hexwraiths in a single round of combat, and they weren´t even the ones doing the charging. A grave tactical error on my part, but it played out nicely annyway sooo...
It´s really cool to have something written here.
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Re: Wild Riders Tactics

Postby JohnnyM » Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:31 pm

They seem to me to be one of those units that work in one of two ways:

Method 1- 5 WR with musician and standard-probably the lowest pts that allows them to be effective. Used for combo charging, flanks/rear, bold moves etc

Method 2: 8-10 WR with command joined by a stag riding charter with moonstone. This is for hoping you don't get hit with a unit killing spell, and ensuring the wood is big enough.
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Re: Wild Riders Tactics

Postby Shandrakor » Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:06 pm

Most units of Wild Riders I see these days (I tend not to use them) are minimum sized 5 man units with the free Musician and that's it. They're used to hunt down small chaff units and/or war machines. With the unit sized this way they can also be used as a mildly expensive chaff unit to redirect, if necessary.

Wild Riders are too fragile to take on much more than that and they cost so many points that charging them into anything with a decent quantity of return attacks is just asking to lose your shirt on the unit (in a unit size bigger than minimum).
Well, my ideas for the next book turned out to be a bust.
But it was still fun working on something of this scale.
For those who care:
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=22620
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Re: Wild Riders Tactics

Postby Ethankyou » Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:09 am

Thanks for the advice everyone!

I might try a combination of 5-man chaff, and 8-10-man character bus next time around.
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Re: Wild Riders Tactics

Postby kbdrand » Mon Jul 02, 2012 3:44 am

I would think that a five man unit just to threaten the flanks would be useful. You don't actually charge unless you are assured of a win, but by threatening you force your opponent to commit forces to counter.
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Re: Wild Riders Tactics

Postby Shandrakor » Mon Jul 02, 2012 5:49 am

kbdrand wrote:I would think that a five man unit just to threaten the flanks would be useful. You don't actually charge unless you are assured of a win, but by threatening you force your opponent to commit forces to counter.

Yeah, but if your opponent knows their stats, they'll just ignore them (unless they go for war machines)... Or my opponents do anyways. That is the minimum sized units.

The bigger units they throw ranged attacks or spells at to make them disappear (which they're pretty good at). Or if they can't do that, then they want to be charged by them because they're such an easy unit to get points off of, while not that dangerous in return. The whole 1 attack on the charge thing is really what keeps them from accomplishing much, even with the bonus on Strength. They don't have the survivability to make it to the second round where their quantity of attacks goes up and then a unit of Dryads is the same thing almost, except higher Toughness. Which begs the question, why not just use more Dryads or something with fly to handle the other things Wild Riders are good for?
Well, my ideas for the next book turned out to be a bust.
But it was still fun working on something of this scale.
For those who care:
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=22620
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Re: Wild Riders Tactics

Postby Yuri » Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:56 am

I'm with mr. Shandrakor on this one. Eventhough they are hard(est) hitting fast cavalry in terms of game, they aren't that much good as the expression suggests. Okay, they have S4 and Wsave 5+ against non-magic, but on the "con's" side list is much bigger: they are elves (T 3), they are expensive, they have only one attack, they don't have shooting, they are cavalry, they are ItP. So, after weighing, they are fast cavalry that isn't and can't be used as fast cavalry at all, ergo, in my language - not efficient enough to find place in army lists. Better use those points on something else (e.g. three units that are still okay in 8th: dryads, archers, treekin).
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Re: Wild Riders Tactics

Postby Ethankyou » Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:16 pm

I definately see what you mean there.

I think I'll still field them, but maybe less of them. I was considering use them for a bunker for a weaver/singer on an elven stead.
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Re: Wild Riders Tactics

Postby erised » Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:07 pm

I'm taking a unit of 15 to my next tourney as a bit of a test. They have great synergy with life due to the bullseye on their backs - you cast flesh to stone on them for the first 2-3 turns (the rest of your list will either not be targetted by too much ranged fire or can take it, aka treekin/dryads), then flesh to stone on your main combat blocks after your WR make it to their targets...

Speaking of their targets - this is the most important component of WR. I use them as an alpha strike force that hits the weakest point in the enemy line (whether ranged units, mage bunkers, etc). In a big unit, they can roll through weak units head on and then line up behind their battleline afterwards. If there are no weak units, then use them in concert with treekin to break big bad units with static res - bigger units can actually help deal with steadfast.

If you are still concerned with ranged fire, partner them with a unit of warhawks. Use the warhawks as shields (provide hard cover to WR) to ensure they survive the first round of shooting. Warhawks are the best at this due to vanguard combo with WR.
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Re: Wild Riders Tactics

Postby SmithF » Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:33 pm

I've had a lot of success with units of 5 with Standard Bearer in the past. What's interesting about wild riders is that they are capable of multitasking: Hunt warmachines and chaff is their primary role, but they can perform well enough as a roadblock, as mage hunters and as an improvised anvil if need be.

The basic error I see people commit with their Wild riders is charging with the unit; there are a lot of occasions when receiving the charge is a far better deal, especially if you park the wild riders in an angle in front of their desired target. Their high WS, high number of S4 attacks over a relatively small frontage (thanks to Fury of Kurnous) combined with their high Ld means that they'll be sticking around even if they suffer a casualty or two. Since the opponent charged on his turn, it's now your chance to countercharge in the flank (which is so conveniently opened up due to your Riders' angling).

Granted, this is something you wouldn't want to try against White Lions or GW wielding dwarves, but there's a time and a place for every tactic.

This use of the unit allows you to dictate opponent's movement more than if you just charged on your turn. It also makes for a nice change of pace compared to the usual 3" backward step of GG to avoid incoming foes.
Concerning mage hunting, the same applies: if you park the unit in front of the mage bunker, charging will likely expose the mage to 4 ws5 s4 attacks with high initiative, then a couple of horse attacks as well. Depending on the situation, that may mean that the unit will stay put or try to maneuver around them (hard), thus limiting the mage's effective range for spells ( for example, casting the pit requires him to be within 24" of the target and for it to be within the caster's front arc).

Another useful tactic is denying the enemy combat reforms through combo charging, but that's applicable to all wood elf combat units. Flank charging a horde means that the return attacks will be more than offset by the wounds caused by the riders. Flank charging it on both flanks means it can do nothing but stand there and take the pain. You get the gist...

Just my 2 cents
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Re: Wild Riders Tactics

Postby popisdead » Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:12 pm

They can take down small support units with their higher initiative and extra attacks. So small units of squighoppers charging them, etc.

Multiples of them with Vanguard will be more threatening however not being able to flee means you have to be more careful with them.

I also liked a unit that had a Dawnspear noble. I use my Wildriders in conjunction with other MSU units in my army to chip away and combo charge. So Wildriders, dryads, etc, trying to take advantage of lots of high WS,Init, S attacks rather than just straight up frontal assault.
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Re: Wild Riders Tactics

Postby ToPaxyGourouni » Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:32 pm

I have been on occation playing a unit of 8-9 with a noble accopnaying them. I give them banner of swiftness and just dominate the flank that I place them to. Being ITP is actually perfect in not rolling panic test on the stand and shoot reaction by the enemy. Having the noble means you can charge the noble safely onto the warmachines while you escort him safely accross the field. Sometimes, if I get the extra points, I will give the noble the spear of twilight. Striking with initiative 7 and using potion of foolahrdiness will most likely inflict the 1 wound you need, and then most units need 5's to hit your wild riders. Mind you, due to talismanic tatoos in 8th edition they also have 5+ ward vs spells as well. So they actually have 5+ ward against everything but demons. You don't care about vampire ghosts, you can kill them easily before they get to kill you. So overall I like the unit a lot. Just use it carefully as an excellent harassment unit (probably the best harassment unit in the game) and don't necessarily expect them to take their points back. Just the fact that they can threaten all kinds of stupid things is usually enough.
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Re: Wild Riders Tactics

Postby No shadow kick » Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:01 pm

Personally I never leave home without a small unit of Wild Riders but I use them as a source of static combat resolution. If we look at our army, WE don't have a lot of means to get those +1 for ranks, banners etc (unless you run with a Eternal Guard death star but meh) so how do we get said bonuses besides killing stuff?

Easy, get 5 Wild Riders with the War Banner (+1 to combat resolution) then charge an already engaged unit in the rear or flank. Can you pull this off you will have 4 or 5+ to combat for them just being there. (+1 charge, +1/+2 flank/rear, +1 banner, +1 War Banner) Now this is 4 or 5+ not counting kills and they are quite killy. I've used them with great success coupled with a Treeman- he takes the charge and they counter charge next round.

They can also solo charge chariots and beat them by pure static combat resolution without having to score 1 single wound (not WoC chariots :o )
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Re: Wild Riders Tactics

Postby CauCaSus » Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:13 pm

2x5 naked Wild Riders cost more than 2x8 dryads and an eagle and those are more resilient, hit harder in close combat and are more versatile since they are three units instead of two.
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Wild Riders Tactics

Postby OzAsrai » Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:05 pm

You can only field 2 eagles, you can only field so many dryads before they get in the way of each other. WR vanguard, move super quick, smaller footprint, better charge range, more likely to get where you need them when you need them: THAT is what is the power of WR and that IMHO is what WE are about
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Re: Wild Riders Tactics

Postby Moose123 » Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:07 pm

But wild riders are faster than the dryads, (the eagle aswell if you count vanguard) and hit much harder than any eagle could ever dream of.
I most often take a min unit with the free musician for warmachine hunting and rear charges, they also tend to attract attention very well. When someone fireballs my wild riders instead of my waywatchers I count it as a success.

Wow Ozasrai. I just got... ninjad :ninja:
Last edited by Moose123 on Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wild Riders Tactics

Postby Moose123 » Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:11 pm

Wait this is asrai.org, I guess I got... waywatchered :wink:
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Re: Wild Riders Tactics

Postby popisdead » Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:21 am

Moose123 wrote:Wait this is asrai.org, I guess I got... waywatchered :wink:


:thumbsup:
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Re: Wild Riders Tactics

Postby Hillbilly Carl » Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:21 pm

I love wild riders, I normally run a unit of 8 with the razor banner and a stag-riding noble with the helm of the hunt and the spear of twilight. They hit really hard. The only downside to adding the stag is that the unit loses the fast cav status which reduces their mobility. I am willing to make that trade though for the added punch the character brings.

At the end of the month I'm playing in a 3000 point tournament and I'm taking a unit of 8 wild riders and 3 stag-riding nobles with the razor banner. Its a ridiculous unit and I'm sure it will be the target of every spell every game. I'm doing it for the fun and novelty, not to win.
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Re: Wild Riders Tactics

Postby Moose123 » Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:00 am

Well good luck.
But here, cleverly disguised as a bomb, is a bomb.
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If you keep saying things are going to be bad, you have a good chance of being a prophet.
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Re: Wild Riders Tactics

Postby WizzyWarlock » Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:08 pm

No shadow kick wrote:Easy, get 5 Wild Riders with the War Banner (+1 to combat resolution) then charge an already engaged unit in the rear or flank. Can you pull this off you will have 4 or 5+ to combat for them just being there. (+1 charge, +1/+2 flank/rear, +1 banner, +1 War Banner) Now this is 4 or 5+ not counting kills and they are quite killy.

I liked this idea so much I squeezed it into my next tournament list. Really like that use of the War Banner for extra combat resolution in such a small and cheap unit.
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Re: Wild Riders Tactics

Postby Moose123 » Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:32 am

Well, what if you are fighting high elves or a unit with a combat character in it, then you could lose all the wild riders and not get any benefit of them being there.
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If you keep saying things are going to be bad, you have a good chance of being a prophet.
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Re: Wild Riders Tactics

Postby Rogue Sun » Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:35 pm

Well those should be pretty obvious to spot, so hopefully he'll avoid those and play like a thinking man. :nod: :thumbsup:
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